[Archived] Donut Mod 4: General Information

Alright, this has been something I've been wanting to say for a while but just never gotten around to it.

With Donut Mod 4, it has been in development for an incredibly long time. I've been following the modding community since early 2017, and I'd been looking forward to DM4 for a long time. It's always been the big, exciting mod that we all have to look forward to. But recently I noticed that any new screenshots of DM4, even impressive new stuff that hasn't been seen before, I just wasn't getting excited anymore.

The truth is, I just don't care about Donut Mod at this point.

I don't want to come off as rude, or ungrateful, because believe me I appreciate what you do very much. It's just that it's been so long that I can't bring myself to get 'hyped' any more, which is a real shame. I understand that good things need time, but this is just too much time that it feels like it isn't worth it.

When Donut Mod 4 does finally come out I might play it some time and have some fun exploring the new map, but it just won't live up to 3 years of waiting. It just isn't going to happen, it's nearly impossible for a project like this to deliver on everyones expectations, considering this is longer than Hit & Run took to develop entirely. I understand I'm comparing apples to oranges here, Donut Team is 10 times smaller than Radical Entertainment, but not everyone will be rational like that.

There's no solution to this either, lost time can never be found again. Which is a massive shame because the effort put into this mod doesn't deserve to go to waste like this.

Really, I'm now seeing Donut Mod as more of an annoyance because so many things are being held back because of it, such as the model builder, the new mod launcher update (which I know some of the people working on the Randomiser mod are depending on) and more new tools and features. It doesn't deserve to be thought of that way and I feel bad about saying this, but it's just how I feel. DM4 just makes me feel kind of empty now. It's a weird feeling.

In the end I'd like to stress again that I don't want to sound ungrateful. I just think it's important to be honest about things. It helps the team get a better understanding of how the community is feeling about things like this. I wish everyone at Donut Team the best of luck working on your future mods.

I apologize you feel that way but your reply is greatly exaggerated or misinformed.

Donut Mod does not hold back other tools or updates, if it did you wouldn't have received 21 mod launcher updates, several tool updates/releases, several new hacks, Road Rage Returns 1, 2, and 3, several events, Cards Against Lucas and multiplayer.
A lot of people tell us that Donut Mod holds back other things, though in reality these other things hold back Donut Mod. For example, we'd probably be done with this story by now if we never made custom maps. Everything we've made up until now has somehow influenced Donut Mod's development.

We're a small team who does this in our free time, sometimes spending upwards of 15+ hours a day working on this at the cost of our own money. We're learning how to do more and everyday we accomplish new things.

If you are still upset, then there's nothing we can do. Hope you come around at some point.

Donut Mod will come out when it's ready. When we have something to announce, we'll do just that. No one needs to beg for updates, it's not dead and we're not done.

Staff are frustrated we've taken this long too, but we're also extremely proud of what we've made and know that it's better to take time to finish something great than to rush out something garbage.

Cheers,
Jake

P.S: Please remember that all deleted posts can be viewed by moderation staff. Please try to keep all conversation topics civil. Thank you!

While it probably wasn't best of me to present the 'holding back other tools' as fact, there has been nothing said to give any hint of a release for the next Mod Launcher (which the team was asked about multiple times and no response was given), Map Builder, or any possible 'new features' which have been mentioned, with absolutely no details of what they are or when we might find out.

This is especially disappointing to me as it it right after more frequent updates were promised, and in fact the exact opposite has happened. And then you call my post 'misinformed and exaggerated' because I was wrong about something nobody but you knows about? You have to remember that we are vastly underinformed on the status of practically everything, which is yet another reason that I am losing interest in projects like DM4 because there's hardly any information to get excited about.

The map builder was said to be "nearly ready" 6 months ago so it's natural for people to assume that it's being held back. Why else would it take so long when the only things that need done are documentation and some more descriptive errors? Of course there could be a perfectly good reason for this but nobody has been told anything. It really bugs me that you get annoyed at people because they don't know this stuff.

Sammy, I completely agree with you in everything. Yes, the fact that DM is hanging or not on other tools is completely undocumented and nobody has never talked about it. You're right saying that many other things (Map Builder, Lucas' Launcher new features) have been announced ages ago and have never been mentioned again. Especially, the Map Builder was announced a lot of time before they decided to put a custom map in DM4, but it has never released. One/two years ago, the team said the builder was going to be released soon, instead stopping talking about it and forgetting about what they said.

Same for DM4, when one says "Release Date: Summer 2017. We'll get an official date as we get closer."(Really took from when DM had to be released in 2017) and, twoyear later, completely stopping to talk about it and trying to stop the users' questions by saying "We'll make a status update soon" , it obviously gives the idea that the project has been cancelled.

I know DM has been delayed due to the add of a custom map, but i think that two years are way much to complete a mod. Basically, while every other release of the mod was separated from each other by a few months -a maximum of an year- this is the longest time between the latest release, in summer 2016, and the never coming update, just like the time between windows xp and windows vista (2001- 2006).

And, please, everyone stop saying "it will be out when it's ready" like they announced it yesterday, because if a mod has been announced and not released for more than two years, it is obvious that the tired users ask to know when this mod will be released.

Anyway, i don't want to be rude, i've got a last thing to say only: don't call Sammy's post "misinformed" only because he was right with everything but one thing that nobody knows and "exaggerated" only because he wrote what he thinks in an impulsive way. I also agree in saying that DM4 could have more frequent updates , while the last one was released six months ago, with the last February status update.

Finally, i've got two slogans that express what is happening these days:
1- "Donut Mod 4 - RIP February 2018"
2- "Donut Mod 4 - The Never Released Update"

I couldn't keep all of this inside of mine.
Danny

yes, we have been waiting on doughnut mod for years, come on, just release date

Danny your reply is incredibly rude, unfactual and not based on anything. When I first read it, my blood boiled so I will be replying in the most professional manner I can, however do understand this greatly bothers me:

Yes, the fact that DM is hanging or not on other tools is completely undocumented and nobody has never talked about it.

We talk about it all the time in our Discord or in question threads quite frequently. We've said in the past the fact we figured out how to do things like custom maps, music and some other things is the reason DM4 has taken so long. It's publicly documented.

You're right saying that many other things (Map Builder, Lucas' Launcher new features) have been announced ages ago and have never been mentioned again. Especially, the Map Builder was announced a lot of time before they decided to put a custom map in DM4, but it has never released.

Where do you get these facts? Because

1. We discuss things all the time
2. We've released new features since the release. Does everyone not remember the fact we've released 21 Mod Launcher updates since the release of DM3 The Seaside Update?
3. Once custom maps were possible, DM4 was planned to have one.

We had custom maps for a few months before we publicly showcased it and we worked on perfecting the technology. At this point, we believe it's perfected but needs error handling and documentation which takes quite a long time, so unless you want a tool with literally zero documentation and when you do something wrong all it does is crash, then I think you can wait.

Same for DM4, when one says "Release Date: Summer 2017. We'll get an official date as we get closer."(Really took from when DM had to be released in 2017) and, twoyear later, completely stopping to talk about it and trying to stop the users' questions by saying "We'll make a status update soon" , it obviously gives the idea that the project has been cancelled.

One year after we posted that, we're now saying we'll make a status update because everyone is now spreading around misinformation and we're sick of being told that it should be done by now. You guys want to know the process, well that's planned to be explained in said status update. I'll also explain it briefly in my next response to you.

I know DM has been delayed due to the add of a custom map, but i think that two years are way much to complete a mod. Basically, while every other release of the mod was separated from each other by a few months -a maximum of an year- this is the longest time between the latest release, in summer 2016, and the never coming update, just like the time between windows xp and windows vista (2001- 2006).

This is really pissing me off because this is based on absolutely nothing other than your idea of when a mod should be released.

Let me break it down for you:

• Be a team of four people who work extremely close to a project
• One has to reverse engineer and implement new features into a 15 year old game (Lucas)
• One has to learn how to make a new map and then create a COMPLETELY new map and write a new story (Loren)
• One has to market, make a brand new website and write a new story (Jake)
• One has to script the missions, write a new story and work closely with Loren to make sure the map is done mission friendly. (Kenny)
• We have to make over 30 missions with difficulty support
• We have to make tons of custom cars
• We have to make tons of outfits
• We have to make tons of collectibles
• We made a completely new frontend
• We have to make several trailers
• We have to do weeks of play testing to ensure stability
• We have to plan and not be impulsive with our decisions
• We're working on a completely new soundtrack to level 4
• We all do this for free in our spare time and we work full-time in retail stores that leaves us drained for upwards of 9 hours a day and unmotivated everyday.

So if you want to get a team of four that can do all these and complete it within 6 months, be my guest. Because I'm sorry, you won't be able to do it either. This is a task that no one in this community has attempted yet and that we have to figure out on our own.

You have no right to judge how long we take on this. This is our passion project and we're following it until the end because of this. We earn NOTHING from this project, and we pay hundreds to thousands of dollars keeping it afloat by buying servers, tools and other things needed to keep this going. Whether we take 1 month or 10 years is at our own discretion and insulting us over the fact we want to make a finished project, on a scale we've never attempted before, for free and in our spare time is incredibly rude. This is going to be the thing people use against me, but here: We owe you nothing and we give you everything. We're extremely tired of this sense of "you're taking too long!". We give everything we can, for free. Let me clarify, when I say free, I mean we haven't made any money from this since last year when our adsense was shutdown on YouTube. We've literally been doing this for free, losing money every month.

And, please, everyone stop saying "it will be out when it's ready" like they announced it yesterday, because if a mod has been announced and not released for more than two years, it is obvious that the tired users ask to know when this mod will be released.

Yeah and we're tired of answering the question. It's really dumb that people need daily confirmation that we're still kicking, be patient and it'll come. If we had something to say, we'd say it.

Anyway, i don't want to be rude, i've got a last thing to say only: don't call Sammy's post "misinformed" only because he was right with everything but one thing that nobody knows and "exaggerated" only because he wrote what he thinks in an impulsive way. I also agree in saying that DM4 could have more frequent updates , while the last one was released six months ago, with the last February status update.

It is misinformed though and I replied both to him and to you explaining why. I'm not going to go into that, there's several sources that would explain updates regarding this project.

Finally, i've got two slogans that express what is happening these days:
1- "Donut Mod 4 - RIP February 2018"
2- "Donut Mod 4 - The Never Released Update"

Very mature. Thanks for that.

Downvote me to oblivion if you have a problem, I genuinely am tired of this. My team is working hard on this and we'll release the things we said on our own time, not because a bunch of people are upset we're taking a long time.

Cheers,
Jake Andreøli

Yeah, i've been very rude and I apologize. Sorry for my impulsive answer.

The problem with trying to get it finished as soon as possible is that a similar situation happened with the Multiplayer. Everyone was asking for it to be released even though it was in an unfinished state and so we gave you it but very few people play the multiplayer now because its just not that great. If we were to rush Donut Mod then its very likely that you wouldnt want to play it twice. Yes it is taking a while however there will be video at some point explainnig why it has taken so long. I cant say when it will be out because I have no idea, But like Jake has said, we dont make money from this (some of us actually lose money) so we arent going to focus on it all the time when we have to prioritise other things in order to make a living.

You're still going on about how we're 'misinformed' and you don't seem to get the fact that we're only "misinformed" because you never answer these questions properly.

Honestly, can you not understand that we're not the only ones at blame here? We wouldn't be misinformed if you would just give a straight answer, instead of a vague response that nobody can make head nor tail of.

3 weeks ago, Loren said that the new mod launcher update would come out in the next couple of days. Since then there's been no further information, or any sign of release, so it's natural to assume that with Donut Mod being so close to finished that it was being held back to be released simultaneously. And when you were asked why it wasn't released, there was absolutely no response. Not even a vague reply, just nothing.

And you're complaining about us being misinformed?


Oh, and to add onto MACCA's post, nobody is asking for it to be released right now. In fact, I fully support spending more time on it. I just wish there some kind of release date to look forward to (even if it turns out to be delayed even further) or some more information on what's actually going on, anything! This information is all kept private and it makes it incredibly difficult to actually get excited about this mod. It would be horrible if Donut Mod was a failure, but that's what's going to happen if you don't change the way you're doing this.

You're still going on about how we're 'misinformed' and you don't seem to get the fact that we're only "misinformed" because you never answer these questions properly.

We said we'd make a status update soon so we can properly and adequately address people's questions and concerns. This was very clearly answered in our Discord and mentioned on this thread.

It will probably be delayed until next week because we have had to deal with this situation rather than sit down together and figure out what we want to say. I also leave tomorrow to go on a trip so I'll be away.

Honestly, can you not understand that we're not the only ones at blame here? We wouldn't be misinformed if you would just give a straight answer, instead of a vague response that nobody can make head nor tail of.

There's a difference between not being told something and assuming something. This is assumption based on the fact we haven't had anything to say. Like do you not get that if we don't have anything to say, we're not going to talk out of our ass? We don't want to say something and have it change.

I apologize if we've been quiet but it's been a quiet month since our last update. We've been working on the map, trying to make a trailer (though due to internal discussion we're trying to rework it), we've been updating the mod launcher and investigating bugs the community has reported.

And when you were asked why it wasn't released, there was absolutely no response. Not even a vague reply, just nothing.

When we're we asked? We've stated things have come up and we ended up adding more to this. Right now we're trying to decide if we dub this 1.18.3 or 1.19 because of how much was actually added. Not to mention investigating bugs reported by the community makes us want to hold back and try to figure them out than rush an update out that some people can't use or makes the issue worse

And you're complaining about us being misinformed?

Do you understand how frustrating and demotivating it is to see people upset that your project isn't out and saying they no longer care. Do you understand that we legitimately do not have anything to say right now and we're not trying to spill everything before release. The new trailer will tell a lot story wise when it's ready. This new status update coming soon (no date) will explain the process of everyone on the team and show never before seen footage. The map builder will be released when we can sit down and document it. You're right to say it could have been done by now. However the task at hand is extremely large, overwhelming and would take a few weeks to do it properly when we have other things we think are more important in the immediate future (creating a more stable mod launcher for example).

I just wish there some kind of release date to look forward to (even if it turns out to be delayed even further) or some more information on what's actually going on, anything!

I apologize but we can't do that anymore. We've done this before but after several delays it's making the community lose faith and our team lose faith. We'd rather release it when we're ready, which if I'm being honest should be within the end of the year. We're trying, it's a lot of work and we're stressed.

I do apologise if my message comes off abrasive, however this situation is frustrating and we just want to do right by the community, however it's extremely difficult to when people are asking for more when we have nothing to give at the moment.

Sincerely,
Jake