Guess That's It

Hey there, Gordon here, and I've been planning to write this a long time ago
First of all, I've got to say huge thanks to everyone in this community, without Donut Team I wouldn't have been the person I am today, and I will be forever grateful for everyone involved. Especially, shotouts to:
Colou, for all the negatives and positives during the Buzz Team era
Duffhause, for continuous support and being a good friend in general
MorganVain, for fun talks, being a nice person and providing a great learning experience
WeaselOnAStick, for revolutionizing the way we mod the game, and making me learn more 3D modelling basically
And last but not least, Addy and the Pastry Commune, for being great testers and in general being very entertaining, in terms of discussions

Now, I get it that only 1/4 of the community will care, but I'm still gonna express my issues and why have I decided to leave permanently

1. Myself

I'm the major reason I have decided to leave. Summing up my 6 year-long modding career, I've created 10 big mods, now let's discern them:
1. Some Changes & More Chase Sedans - what the f***, seriously? No
2. The Return Of The Cars - Adds unused vehicles to the phonebooth until the point it crashes, 5 million people already did something similar so nothing unusual here
3. Homer's Adventure - The first proper campaign mod. Has no plot, bad mission design with seemingly random missions, still wondering why it got popular
4. Springfield Noire - Clusterf*** :)
5. Waylon's Story - Unfinished, broken piece of concept that stood still in it's development, was waiting for the Industrial Zone to be out for some reason to finish the mod, talk about being overambitious
6. Homer The Detective - Eh, the concept is interesting but the story makes no sense really, like, Burns tried to consolidate all electricity in Springfield? why
7. Set To Kill - Yet another unfinished, broken piece of concept that, despite being one level long, was still rushed and unreleased
8. Springfield Noire 2 - Clusterf*** vol. 2 :)
9. The Curse of the Flying Hellfish - Overly ambitious, it changed so much in the game it stopped being funny
10. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon: Ace Cashier - The only good mod, has an interesting story and pretty neat gameplay. I woudn't call it the best community mod, but it's literally the best I could offer over these 6 years
You see the problem yet? I've considered all my mods finished before publishing them, which resulted in a major shitstorm twice (led to it in the second case instead), the other couple of mods were lacking in either one aspect, or several, which is a no-no when making mods
I'm not saying literally everything should be perfect, you can not achieve a perfect mod, even DM4 is not perfect, we're merely human, but at least you have to try, and I didn't for 6 years, for some reason managing to rival big projects like Cops: In Springfield at some point, HOW

The other issue with me is that I'm severily selfish and plainly toxic, which has been proven by literally me constantly, by reacting to various drama and being an idiot in general, so if I leave I would do the community a huge favour by getting it rid of moronic mods and bad mod authors. I want the community to prosper, and I have a huge feeling I'm letting it down. SNoire mods are a proof of that, the first thing you're gonna associate "CMB" with - is the drama first, good mods seconds, and I don't want to bring any more drama to this community. Hell, maybe this post will spark some drama again, but I sincerely hope it will not.
Because of this I've lost any interest in modding this game, and cancelled all of my projects, from regular mods to CineMod Sins, mod walkthroughs and other stuff I've been doing on my YouTube channel, feel free to do whatever you want with the leftovers, I'm not copyrighting anything. I still want to be somewhat of use for the community, so I'll still support my translations, and I'll wait for the official website translation and other tools' to be added at some point in the future!
Note that I'm not writing all of this purely because I want you to feel empathy towards me or something. No, I'm merely expressing what I feel in regards to my personality, and I'm merely stating the facts. These mods being unfinished is a fact. Surely, I could go ahead and remaster them, making them better, and I even tried at some point silently, but I'm totally burned out and I don't even want to play the vanilla game, let alone create mods for it
I'm not the best person, and my mods aren't the best either, but at the same time I feel like I've grown and, to be fair, you can't make SHaR mods for the entirety of your life
Hope you understand

2. The Community

Yep, the community also has issues which made me leave, but despite this fact - it has lesser impact on my decision than the previous section. First of all, is the response, there is none
During the last couple of months I've either DMed or asked publically about some favours and just had questions in general, they were ignored, and I'd honestly be okay with any response as long as it's a response. I do understand that people I ask are busy and have personal issues to attend to, but hey, even I have those, yet I always provide a responce no matter what.
Let's put minor stuff and selfishness aside, a couple of people also wrote some articles for the DTdocs, which haven't been tampered with for a very long time, and despite several articles being sent - only a couple is online. There is no way to know the "status" of the article or anything, and despite user written articles being encouraged - it's been a long time since those files were submitted. This is a point here because people spent their own time on updating something that could be very useful for newcoming modders, yet it seems they weren't even considered
Then, I should also probably mention how a separate Community Health document was in the works after the CMGate incident. It contained general information about the drama, how the staff responded and what will happen after it. TYI, the drama occured a year ago, yet the document itself wasn't even finished, let alone posted, that sounds really weird

Then there's censorship, I heavily despise something that limits freedom of speech. I'd understand censoring something political or religious as it has no place in this community to begin with, so why censoring The Stoner Team? I get that they aren't really great in behaviour-related issues, but no one deserves to be censored if they aren't literally talking about nazis or something, besides, only a singular member 'broke' some rules, to my knowledge, so censoring the team in it's entirety is a bit of an overkill
The second side of the censorship is it's absence you could say, I find it funny how during June, a lot of time was dedicated to LGBTQ+ Promotion on the website, basically using it to their advantage with these pronouns, rainbow logo, etc, yet there is a certain transphobic, racist homophobe within the community, I'm not calling out any names, but be aware that this person exists and they make mods. Now, I'm not advocating for attacks, but this behaviour is intolerable, and we've tried to solve this issue by reporting tons of material against them, but it's apparently still being investigated months later. You took the CMB Union within a day, but can't ban a single person for months?
I'm sorry if I'm being rude, I just don't understand the direction this community takes, if it endorses this kind of behaviour (and yes, by ignoring this behaviour you only promote it, you have to fight racists and transphobes, no matter what they do or who they are. One day we have transphobes, the next p********* will invade, or someone even worse) - it's not gonna get good, and I'm worried, after all, I practically "grew up" here, and if this community falls victim to such irresponsibility - that would be tragic at best
Now, I'd address the elephant in the room, DM4, the map builder and other 'detained' projects, but everyone knows at this point. I have no doubts that they're coming in eventually, keyword, eventually. And yes, I do understand that literally everyone but me has families, work and other things to attend to besides the community, but to be fair, you've created this community and are moderating it, you kinda have to attend to it too, and if you can't - assign some folk to help. DT is getting larger and larger each day, and the fact that we have troll posts not dealt with for a large period of time is kinda worrying. What's gonna happen in the future when we hit, say, 100k?
Once again on topic of those projects - the fact that they're being developed for too long is great, more features are getting added, and more details being polished, but at this point I'm no longer interested, and I don't really care. I'm totally burned out and won't be able to enjoy DM4 when it comes out. A delayed game is eventually good, for sure, but you can't keep delaying it forever. I've joined the community as a kid, and now I'm three years into college, full DM4 is still not out. Although, I've got to admit, constantly promising that it'll be out by the end of the year wouldn't have been better, and that's a plus, if you're not sure - don't promise anything


Now, thanks for reading through all of this, again I'm extremely sorry if I'm being rude or aggresive, really I am. I'm not going to justify my behaviour, but do know that I wasn't planning on starting any dramas in the community again with this post, I only wanted to speak out for the last time before fading away, so please, if you do find it offensive and decide to ban me - do so in peace. At the same time I'm really glad I've joined the community and learned so much, I just wanted to share my thoughts for the last time, hoping they'll be heard and maybe addressed

Thank you Donut Team, for everything, stay safe and improve!
(PS. IF, I-i-i-f the website translation is going to be a thing one day, please, I beg you - Email me (rbd.empire@gmail.com) or DM me in Discord (Gordon CMB#0458) to let me know, I really want to provide a translation for everything I can, so more people would enjoy the modding experience)

Yeah the censorship of Stoner Team was "the straw that broke the camels back" for some of us. And before that, it was the fact there is an empty "Bear Claw team" board on the forum yet we couldn't have one despite releasing 4-5 mods (wheather the mods are to your taste is irrelevant). It's not a huge deal but i do think the reasoning was never explained since i'm still not sure exactly. But enough about that, sad to see you "leave" the modding scene or whatever, hope we stay in contact mate.

I'm going to respond the community factor in this because you asked for it to be addressed. It is perfectly acceptable for you to criticize us, we don't hold that against you or any other user. And while we have had our shortcomings, the reality is we've explained all of this to the community time and time again.

During the last couple of months I've either DMed or asked publically about some favours and just had questions in general, they were ignored

If you're referring to individual members, they do not owe you anything. If you're referring to staff, you know that we always try to respond but due to sheer volume if it isn't sent to us directly, we may not see it. There are many staff members who have stepped aside as well and DM'ing them will not usually result in a response. You know who those people are and its been blatantly apparent if you don't know.

Let's put minor stuff and selfishness aside, a couple of people also wrote some articles for the DTdocs, which haven't been tampered with for a very long time, and despite several articles being sent - only a couple is online. There is no way to know the "status" of the article or anything, and despite user written articles being encouraged - it's been a long time since those files were submitted. This is a point here because people spent their own time on updating something that could be very useful for newcoming modders, yet it seems they weren't even considered

Well, we were working on a process to submit all of this stuff in a more standardized way. User written documentation is encouraged to a point. There's for sure more we could do, but it isn't something that is standardized.

Then, I should also probably mention how a separate Community Health document was in the works after the CMGate incident. It contained general information about the drama, how the staff responded and what will happen after it. TYI, the drama occured a year ago, yet the document itself wasn't even finished, let alone posted, that sounds really weird

Because with each day that passed, the information became less and less valuable. At some point, new drama occurs and we have to re-evaluate the entire doc. Its not like this was a war and we're now teaching a history class. Its a battle that continually will exist with or without you around and that battle is constantly evolving. There's a reason why spam protection has to be updated every day, because it doesn't stop changing.

so why censoring The Stoner Team? I get that they aren't really great in behaviour-related issues, but no one deserves to be censored if they aren't literally talking about nazis or something

That censored text is literally ending today. But the reason it existed was because users were using it in a malicious manner. I've explained this numerous times and I genuinely can not believe that I'm having to explain it again. Not to mention, this is a modding community for a children's game. And I know we can go back and forth on this, but the word "Stoner" is something that really doesn't have a place here either.

Edit (3:00 PM ET): This censored text was removed from our text bible at 3:00pm on August 1st, 2021 as planned.


If the person who mainly runs the thing continues to act out and not follow community guidelines, then don't expect us to respect their team name, especially when its being used in malicious manner during their ban. If you hadn't noticed, you also can't say J***** B** for the same reasons. It invokes anger and frustration in a lot of people because of the malicious nature of the name.

only a singular member 'broke' some rules, to my knowledge, so censoring the team in it's entirety is a bit of an overkill

When more than half the team has bans on record and some just now expiring. Not to mention clear signs of vote manipulation, no it isn't.

The second side of the censorship is it's absence you could say, I find it funny how during June, a lot of time was dedicated to LGBTQ+ Promotion on the website, basically using it to their advantage with these pronouns, rainbow logo, etc, yet there is a certain transphobic, racist homophobe within the community, I'm not calling out any names, but be aware that this person exists and they make mods. Now, I'm not advocating for attacks, but this behaviour is intolerable, and we've tried to solve this issue by reporting tons of material against them, but it's apparently still being investigated months later. You took the CMB Union within a day, but can't ban a single person for months?

Its almost like you don't know what we've found and continue to find. This has been an internally discussed for a long time because we're stuck on the fence of how to handle it. I can tell you that things they were to be involved in have been cancelled. I can tell you action will be taken, but to what extent is the problem at this point. You of all people have given us so much s*** for using things in another community/server to take action, but you continually press the issue without the context of what we know. I'd gladly tell you if it wasn't a legal nightmare to just say in a public forum. Informing my moderators about this situation created worries of how that knowledge can be abused.

Now, I'd address the elephant in the room, DM4, the map builder and other 'detained' projects, but everyone knows at this point. I have no doubts that they're coming in eventually, keyword, eventually. And yes, I do understand that literally everyone but me has families, work and other things to attend to besides the community, but to be fair, you've created this community and are moderating it, you kinda have to attend to it too, and if you can't - assign some folk to help.

We have assigned people to projects and have mentioned this in status updates, announcements and just off-hand in chat. Not to mention, I've explained literally everything about these projects many times. Even the other day!

And people's constant bickering about it is part of the reason that these things aren't out today! I can agree, time management has been horrible and then feature creep has also really played a factor in how bad these things are done. You have the ability to walk away from this, we don't. You can argue that its something we can do, but the community's success relies on the team that created it. If we let another team take over, do you think this would ever truly be the same as earlier DT or better? I think not.

Although, I've got to admit, constantly promising that it'll be out by the end of the year wouldn't have been better, and that's a plus, if you're not sure - don't promise anything

And yet we haven't promised a release date in quite some time. I can fully admit when we're wrong and have done so many times.

The way we operate isn't the best, in fact its pretty f****** bad at times. But unfortunately due to circumstances within the team and how this community was created, it is not something that we can just assign more people to for a fix.

I have gone to bat for this community several times in arguments with the team to just release this stuff even if its in a messy state. I am not blaming anyone else in the team, but you're right, we should be fulfilling those goals more often. However, the way you present these complaints is what annoys the ever-living-s*** out of us. It makes us feel like we owe you something when we most certainly do not.

And before that, it was the fact there is an empty "Bear Claw team" board on the forum yet we couldn't have one despite releasing 4-5 mods (wheather the mods are to your taste is irrelevant).

BCT is developing Road Rage Returns as well as other mods that will be released under the BCT x DT name. That's why they get their own board. The board was supposed to be privatized until it was ready to be announced, but unfortunately as everything else has been, things have been delayed. The day it showed up was the day we planned on announcing things, but oh well.

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If my words sound harsh, its because I'm tired of explaining this over and over again. Upvotes & downvotes to the bottom.

In no way do you sound harsh or anything, I understand, I probably should've worded my topic a bit clearer than I did, but anyways I don't try to say that DT owes me something
From my perspective things just tend to look stale and, unprogressive, you could say
As for the spam prevention, I do understand you can't simply ban a bunch of people and this will be over, no, this is indeed, as you worded it, a large scale war that can not be won within a day, and I wish that soon enough, the spam prevention system will be perfected
And the Stoner Team, I'll be honest, I generally had no idea that's what it meant, Russia has more diverse slang for that
Once again, I'm sincerely sorry for bringing any trouble

This just confuses me further tbh it's not a swear word or an offensive word to my knowledge especially if that's how someone chooses to identify. maybe the rules should be clearer but good luck with that one. and tbh it sounds like you have much bigger fish to fry right now... Maybe concentrate on that and not some harmless name given to a modding group of about 11 people, one of which is Lucas lol so 10 people discounting the one member does not directly contribute and is purely there to stalk the server haha. I get that having your priorities in order isn't always easy but what i just read takes the cake... I want nothing but good things for this community, it kept me sane during that first lockdown and I'll be forever grateful for that but can't say i'm suprised by Gordons decision. I won't say any more on the matter publicly.

Let's put minor stuff and selfishness aside, a couple of people also wrote some articles for the DTdocs, which haven't been tampered with for a very long time

Also, @Josh / Proddy did some digging for me while I wrote that and in fact the docs site has been updated somewhat frequently.

That said, user submitted docs need to be vetted before they're pushed. This includes making sure the doc is written correctly as well as making sure everything in the doc works as intended.

This just confuses me further tbh it's not a swear word or an offensive word to my knowledge especially if that's how someone chooses to identify.

It was being used in a malicious manner, which is why we had temporarily suspended it while a few people were banned.

Maybe concentrate on that and not some harmless name given to a modding group of about 11 people, one of which is Lucas lol so 10 people discounting the one member purely there to stalk the server haha

I don't care how rude this comes across, you are purely delusional if you think Lucas stalks your server for us. Its actually ironic you say that when ALL of the reports coming out of your own server comes from your own team.

I get that having your priorities in order isn't always easy but what i just read takes the cake...

The priorities you think I should have go based on the information you believe to be true. That's the simple factor. There's more at play than what you want to believe. Expand your view and maybe you'll see it.

The quoted post is unavailable.

Don't act coy. Stoner Team has literally released art of people with a blunt in their mouth.

Without the person's permission to use their face, I might add. Which is also against the rules. Should I take action against that?

Whatever the hell that was was not put out under "the team" as i have no idea what you're on about... And i'm the one that's delusional lol mug